Silent K:
I talked to David for about two hours over the phone. 2 things to note were
that David is as sure of himself and who he is on the phone as his principles
would suggest -- I have no question that this guy sticks to his rules.
The second thing is that he is a lot more compassionate and full of boyish
fun/humor than I would have imagined.
One of the first things I told him was I was feeling a bit nervous talking to
him, since I was struggling with this, and it was kind of embarrassing, and he
said "I don't believe that" and then "the way I see it, you already can do
this. You just need to get back to basics."
Right off the bat, the guy had my attention. I won't summarize the rest,
because the past posts have touched on a lot already, but one thing that struck
me is he said "I never like to put a woman down.
I'll let her know my rules, and I never compromise on them, but I want her to
feel good with me. I flatter them -- crudely perhaps, but they enjoy that."
Overall, the guy ALWAYS knows what he wants, and says what is on his mind (in a
charming way, but basically talking out loud).
He kept saying over and over "who fucking cares what she's thinking? Y ou'll
never know anyway, and it doesn't make you smarter! Just let it go!" The guy's
tone was like a self-assured Joe Pesci (from those mobster movies). "Ya gotta
read 'em the riot act, let 'em know how it is." The closest he came to
analyzing his approach was to say that "what do these women want?
I don't know, but if you look at these magazines, and their movies, it's like
the want a guy with a sense of humor, a guy who is confident about himself, and
a guy who is strong." Another bon mot was that "I believe I can sleep with any
woman.
But it's just not worth the time to invest in every woman, so you gotta find
out fast if she's down with your rules, or else she's gotta leave!" Overall, my
impression is that David has a great system, based on his desires and a solid
experience of women.
And a great understanding of living life, not just laying chicks. He also had a
great way of encouraging me to listen to "one person. Not 3, not 1.5, but one
person -- yourself."
As he put it, listen to your gut instincts, and simply think out loud, you will
not go wrong. In the few days since the conversation, I have been shaken, but
in a good way. I now realize that most of my efforts with this stuff were
motivated by bullshit reasons (looking cool, building up my self-esteem) and am
doing a lot of work on what it is I really want.
David was incredibly honest, and I think that was great to talk to him. I can
say this: talking to David changed my frame of mind in a good way. I am
actually more confused in a way, but I feel free in a way that I did not
before.
I don't know if this will help people, but if you are stuck, I think David has
a great sense of how to connect with himself and what he wants in life, and to
show you where you are fooling yourself. David said that the biggest difficulty
is "going for what you want versus going for what you're brainwashed (by
mother/society/peers) to do".
He said that with his kids, he has hopes and such for them, but his main thing
is that "they feel secure enough in themselves to go for what makes them
happy".
I am still working on connecting with what I want, and being secure enough with
myself with women (mainly just reminding myself that her opinion of me is just
her opinion of me), and I appreciate David's help in showing me how I was
fooling myself, so I can focus on deciding what I want.
They say that the truth will set you free, and talking to David was like
getting a double-shot of truth, with a chaser of gut-busting humor. The guy
tells it like it is, and has a passion for living -- that's my story and I'm
sticking to it!
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Saaq: Are you aware of
www.seduction.net?Just thought I'd bring it to your attention
Cliff's comment: That had been mentioned here a long time ago. I see that
the site has changed a lot. How about someone doing a review?
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Bucky:
Louis and Copeland have a free 29 page e-book called "Secrets of Seduction"
available for download at
http://howtosucceedwithwomen.com/Secrets_o_seduction/body.shtml. Some good
stuff in there and I definitely think most of your readers will find it
beneficial.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Yum!:
Commenting on the Self-talk thread:
For over a year I tried all the positive self talk advice to get myself in the
right state of mind, overcome my various weaknesses, etc. The problem was, it
didn't work for me.
What I didn't take into consideration is that I'm a polarity responder. I
finally started doing "negative affirmations" i.e. telling myself I'm timid or
suffer "paralysis or analysis" or whatever.
My natural contrariness set in and I became determined to prove my statements
wrong. I have found this to be much more effective in improving my weaknesses.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
MTL_PUA:
MTL_PUA with A LOT of help from James (Thanks man!) Last weekend I went out
with Cliffy and James. James ran something by me that I wanted to field test,
so I went out and tested it tonight. 12 approaches in all, but as soon as I
would get to the BF question, I would either try to # close if they were single
or continue if they were "spoken for." I approached 5 women that all had BF's.
It turned out to be fine because I was there explicitly to try this pattern
out. I would talk with them a bit and ask if they had a BF. I typically don't
do this but I was there specifically to test this out, and I did not have a lot
of time. We call it the Pre-Emptive Strike BF Destroyer.
[If she has a picture of him, make her pull it out and hold it in her hand...it
helps when killing him in her head...if she does not, no biggie]
I was talking with my friend Tracy, a model that I work with, and she was
telling me about how she met and fell in love with the man of her dreams. She
was showing me a picture just like you, actually... [if she is showing you a
picture] [pause]
She used to tell me all the time: "I am totally crazy about this guy" She said
that at the time, she was already seeing somebody and [point to picture of BF,
or point away] and she thought he was the one she was going to spend the rest
of her life with.
But then, she met someone new and she described it like this: "For some
mysterious reason you just find yourself so attracted to this person ; you
don't know what it is, but somehow you just feel that special for all the
right reasons" She said that she felt really strange about it at first, but
then she told me "Tom, you know that feeling that you must have something, and
must have it NOW It's absolutely incredible and amazing!"
And it was really weird - BUT - what she realized as she was staring at the
photo of her BF at the time [or thinking about her BF at the time] to picture
in her hand or away> was that you start recalling all of the times when he did
things that really bothered you and really hurt you. And guess what ... you
take that photo [image] of him and THROW IT AWAY [push away the photo or her
hand].
And in it's place, was the image of this person that you will be spending the
rest of your life with [use your hands to make a frame around your face] And
that is EXACTLY what Tracy did. She left her boyfriend [point to photo or away]
and began immediately seeing this guy that had become her new soul mate ...
So out of 5 approaches of women with boyfriends, I got 5 numbers and two damn
hot kiss closes in one night. After I ran this pattern on them, in all cases,
the boyfriend never came up again. Now, I guess I will only know how effective
it has been once I bed one of them, but before this I had a lot of trouble
running BF destroyers. This one is definitely a pre-emptive strike that will
knock her out.
MTL_PUA on Splinter's ("If listening to David during a brunch can get a guy
like me a blow job in a public place such as the Old Port in Montreal") My take
on David: The guy is VERY FUCKING GOOD. I will never forget my meet with him.
If you have a chance to go to the seminar in November, do it.
He will open your eyes as no one has done before. Just being around him will
boost you tenfold. After meeting him, you just automatically start doing things
for YOURSELF instead of doing them for the pickup.
MTL_PUA
Commenting on Powerhouse Supreme's ("Here is the dual
personality pattern I talked to you about. This thing puts the interaction on a
whole new level!!!") Bud, this is the best contribution I have seen in a long
time. I am going to field test it this weekend and come back to you with some
feedback on what can be done to make it even more powerful.
MTL_PUA has a question for Ross Jeffries Ross, I thought of emailing this to
you but I figure it can answer a lot of questions for people that have not been
into SS for very long.
Ever since I saw you anchor a barmaid's feelings onto a damn stir stick at
Buena Notte, I have been curious about hard core SS. My question is this: Where
does one start to learn SS properly, without having any previous serious
exposure to it??? Books? Your material? Where?
Here is a good little gimmick for flaky bitchez. If I feel that some woman are
disconnecting from me, or not calling me back, I just run a new edition of
MTL_PUA 's Life List (hehehehe). This is a bogus email that I send out to
chicks under the impression that it is a mailing list to all of my friends.
Intro like this:
---------------
Subject: MTL_PUA 's Life List
NOTE:
If you are receiving this email, odds are you ran into MTL_PUA at one point or
another in your life, and he somehow thought that you became a good friend, or
at least someone worth knowing.
This email is an initiative from me to all of you, as many bitch & complain
that I don't give news, write, email, call or visit often enough. It goes out
every so often to keep you updated, and silent ~LOL~ If you would like to be
removed from this list please type REMOVE in the subject line upon replying to
this email.
I will then curse you, consider releasing your address to email spammers, and
finally remove your address from my list : ). Alternatively, you could change
your identity. Your call, really. If you have any questions or comments, please
feel free to write back. Unless you have poor grammar, in which case you can
just call me ~LOL~
Here are the latest developments over the past few weeks: next section>
Get in my head section: "I have been thinking up some weird stuff lately,
mainly when it comes down to two people meeting each other ... whatever>"
---------------
So here is the lowdown: she gets the email and thinks it's a mailing list with
unshown addresses. Reads it, and thinks about what you have to say (without
knowing that it's geared especially towards her), and WILL reply as long as the
email makes sense.
It will peak her interest at least. It has worked like a charm in the past, and
it always has them emailing me back and asking when I will be seeing them
again, and other bullshit. Tip the scale in your favor.
(New story) I met a blonde girl at Thursdays here in Montreal recently who
ended up being a pretty interesting meet. Dumb as hell though ... kind of un-
sexy to me. I go to pick her up and she is giving me attitude all night and she
ended up hitting on this guy at the pool hall (an AFC we saw her with two days
earlier - apparently he was there by fluke). She was talking to him all kinds
and I was out-Alpha'd, which sucked cuz I was tired as hell. BUT I have too
much pride to let it slide, and I had good rapport with this other chick that
kept eyeing me up and down (a 7), so I spoke to her for about 20 minutes and
went for the "You know what I think? I think you should kiss me NOW" close.
Got a nice tongue-down kiss and the blonde got pissed off at me. I got the #
(of the new girl) and got out and went back to see blondie and by this time she
is FUMING, and goes to the washroom.
I just look at the guy (bodybuilder type - he had that fucking "I am the best"
grin on his face, looking slightly pissed off though) and tell him this line
from a movie I saw once: "I am not quite sure what pisses you off more ... the
fact that you know I am this girl's fantasy now ... or the fact that she'll be
thinking of ME even if you get a pity-frustration-fuck .... ". I swear the guy
just deflated and when she came back, she started talking to him again.
I am pretty sure she is trying to make me jealous or something but I really
didn't give a shit because you know I DO NOT tolerate disrespect.
Anyways, I was playing pool by myself and all of a sudden she just turns around
and SNAPS at me, saying shit like "I can't believe you are taking me out and
you are not paying attention to me, bla bla bla, go kiss other girls, bla bla
bla".
AFC ejects at this point without saying bye to her (hehe). I just told her that
she was ASSUMING that I was taking her out and maybe she was expecting too much
out of this whole meeting.
She mumbles something about men being all the same, and I tell her that that is
not true (here is something new 4 u): "Men are not all the same. Some men
pretend that they fuck women, some men actually go out, do it and love it. I
know you like the second type."
Called me yesterday late at night, and she asked me why I was "so mean" with
her. I told her she was being immature and childish, then ran Steph's COURAGE
VS CONSIDERATION pattern, and that impresses the crap out of her.
So I try to push it and say: "Well, if we are going to be friends you are going
to introduce me to beddable women, OK?", and at this point she mutters "But
.... what's wrong with me???", I just told her that she looked like she was
good in bed, but I did not want the whole mind-fuck that comes with bedding
her. She apologized for being a bitch and promised that she would never do this
again if (these are her words) "YOU WILL ALLOW ME TO SEE YOU AGAIN. I promise I
will make it up to you!", so I am in for the sex part 4 sure at this point.
She called twice today, but I am busy as hell and she is no fun on the phone.
If I could just fuck her and drop the rest of the bullshit, that would be cool.
I just want to eliminate the convo and screw her, but you know how fucking
picky I am.
Anyways, that's how you turn a "super-bitch" with shields up to full power
(hehehe ... I know you remember that approach ~LOL~) into a supplicating
naughty slut that will do anything for you.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Ross: (
Commenting on: "I'm 5'7" I have a spare tire big enough for a
monster truck, I'm 39 average looking. She is 5'9" gorgeous, firm, trim and 31
and gives me all that I need, without patterns or fancy lines."): Let's make
something clear because I don't like mistakes to happen: THIS woman responds to
FORCEFULNESS.
Not all women will respond this dramatically or to this aggressive a level of
approach. What made this Bro successful is that he was alert enough to read
that THIS woman would respond to THIS approach.
I'm also willing to bet this is NOT the first time she's ever given a guy she
barely knows a public blow job! In other words, he didn't get new behavior
from her. This is the way she is USED to responding and what it is she responds
to: POWER.
In this case, it's almost like meeting someone who is enough of an a-hole gives
HER permission to act as slutty and exciting and horny as she really wants to
act, but normally doesn't get to. She needs a bit of negating before she can
drop the cold-bitch act.
There ARE women who respond to this. Others might be scared away. Remember,
also, she's 31, so she's been around the block. Try doing that with someone in
her early 20's; you might not get the public blow job (she'd probably want to
go somewhere private!). But good job!
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Stephane:
(
Commenting on Max: "Can anyone recommend any books or websites on embedded
commands?"):
I can almost guarantee that you won't be able to find an ENTIRE BOOK or
website on embedded commands. They are just TOO SIMPLE. Because all you
are doing is emphasizing some
words and not others. And those words are usually verbs. That's it!
People can, Max, FEEL COMPELLED to find more data on embedded commands,
and when they GO FOR IT thoroughly, they have a tendency to GET
ADDICTED to that which they do not know...yet...will...LEARN.
See how easy that was? Now, if anyone wrote a book about that, then
I'm glad to be giving you all the contents. Anyway, embeds are
outlined in great detail in the book TRANCEFORMATIONS by Bandler &
Grinder, along with just about every other hypnotic pattern.
(
Commenting on Mark B: "Virtually all relationship experts claim that we
must not act needy toward a woman. Exactly what does needy mean? And also if
we are asking her to meet with us then is that not acting as if we have a
need? What then is the purpose of her meeting with us if we do not have a
need to be with her? When we ask her out, go for a number, slide our hand
down her pants is that not a sign of a need?"):
I, too, have spent alot of time (possibly way too MUCH time!) pondering this.
Here's my two cents....
Needy means if you can't have it, PAIN.
Asking her to meet with us COULD be perceived as need. I think we NEED
to be very careful when we ASK for a 'date' or anything. My style
does not include 'asking'. I don't demand, either. I usually SUGGEST.
"I'm going to so and so's party this Saturday...you should cum."
"Do you date immature men?"
"Have you ever wanted a cock so bad that you just..." (Sorry!)
Not just the words but the feeling behind them. I'm sorta saying, with
my body language,"You're stupid if you don't!" It works alot better
than polite asking. And if I'm feeling really good, I will just
fuckin' PRESUPPOSE IT. "OK, so I'll see you on Saturday!" If she gives
me a funny look, I have a great 'bail-out anchor' that I use. It's
magic and it has saved my ass ALOT over the years. It's called a WINK!
Anyway, the other cent is to just simply replace the word need with
the word want, cause it makes a difference. DUH!
Also, as a human being, we need sex, and we need connectivity with
other human beings. SO BE IT!! I could use some sex right now, actually...
(
Commenting on: "Assume that for every 100 women out there 30% of them have a
need and are open to being with a man like you right now."):
30% is pretty fuckin' good, generous even. I have the illusion that
all women love me, they just don't know it yet. But I'm just an
arrogant pig. Because fuck rapport. I never 'try' to get rapport.
I just assume it's there already. Cocky, but effective.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Horn Dog:
I was LMAO about the comments on the church chyks...not that I specialize in
them, but have noticed in the past that once you get past their superficial
barriers, they tend to really let out all that they've been repressing.
Using the "take away" is good...build as much tension in them as you can, they
already have enough, not much more will burst their dam.
The main trick is to help them give themselves permission. Confessing your
"sins" as a voracious horndog to them and asking them to help you "feel the
power" is a good way to keep the convos sexually charged and full of any
patterns you can manage to spin.
If her church is the spirit-filled kind, you can always speak in terms of the
Spirit "feeling its power penetrate deeply," or being "overcome (cum) by the
power," and so on.
You get the idea. As to the problem of negation in your affirmations...first
identify what you WANT, and eliminate words about what you DON'T want.
Erickson talked about the problems of suggestion in quitting smoking.
He suggested that you speak entirely in terms of what you would have or do
without smoking...such as breathing fresh air, spending money on your date
instead, and the like.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Brother Marcus:
[Responding to Mark B.: "For anyone serious in learning how to succeed with
women in the group should rent the movie The Tao of Steve. It's about a group
of men who pattern themselves after Steve McQueen and use eastern religious
teachings to score with women.]
The movie was written by a Duncan North, who attended my alma mater. He
graduated a year before I started. The alumni newspaper had an interview with
him about a year ago, in which he brought up some interesting facts. Most
significantly, the director and producer, both women, rewrote the film to have
a traditional romantic comedy/chick film ending; The way he wrote it, Dex (main
character) goes off to seminary just like he discusses with that priest in the
men's room at the beginning of the film.
Kind of appropriate, really, as Dex rants towards the middle of the film about
how Romantic Love is the state religion of the USA.
Mr. North, by the way, writes a dating/sex advice column for The Santa Fe
Reporter (a local culture and entertainment weekly) called The Tao of Love. Dex
is, quite evidently, based on Duncan.
I'll agree that Dex has some kick-ass large-chunk technique, BUT I notice that
he is missing a piece of the puzzle as far as I can tell; he doesn't have a
frame for having more than one woman in his life that lets them all be at peace
with it and even like it.
There's a scene where he is at a party and three women he is either currently
shagging or wants to shag all show up. He is visibly horrified by the
situation, as if their knowing about each other would bring disaster. Also, at
numerous points in the movie, he tells little white lies with the design of
getting women into bed. Maybe it works for him and for them, but yuck. I just
don't lie. It's so much easier.
Only one story to keep track of. He is really pushing the limits of being
illusive without being downright squirrelly or dishonest or unavailable even to
himself. Of course, one would need that conflict in order to make him an
interesting character, at least in a film arguably made for women. I would
merely patch this aspect of his approach if you wanted to integrate his
teachings.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Stephanie:
I would say that from my personal experience men are much more hung up on what
a woman looks like and women are more hung up on what they themselves look
like. I know plenty of women who date or are married to less than attractive
men. You see it all the time, especially in these movies where the old guy
gets the young hot thing. Get real!
Women are more willing to look beyond looks (not always, but more so) and get
to know the man. How about asking your readers if they would date a less than
appealing woman with a terrific personality rather than a gorgeous model that
bored them to tears? Women are so busy judging what other women are wearing
and doing with their hair.
You think men stare at women? Men will walk into a room where a party is going
on and check out the women in there. I think women (on the average, of course)
will walk into the same room and also check out the women, prior to checking
out the men.
Sizing up the competition, so to speak. I have this girlfriend who is tall,
big boned and can stand to lose about fifty pounds or so. She is average
looking, but being overweight does not help her out. The worst part about her
though is that she is so pissy half of the time. I have known her for ten
years and I tolerate her well enough, but at moments even I have had enough.
The point here is that she does not have a real problem with women, but she has
a problem with good looking women. If we go out together she announces to
anyone that will listen that I am in a commited relationship and that I am
going to marry my boyfriend, because she feels every guy meets me and wants me.
Maybe compared to her that is true, but not because I am prettier but rather
because she is plain miserable to be around all the time. I guess we are our
own worse enemy.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
NightLight9:
(
Commenting on: "STEPHANE - You could say,"Would you like to feel
connected with someone?" Run if she says no congruently."):
NightLight9 responds: I don't think this is really necessary, just affirm her
response and continue the pattern from the point of describing. The "would you
like to feel this connected ..." Puts a lot of pressure on her to respond in
way that puts her out on a limb.
One of the things about these patterns is "You go first" and an important part
of you going first is it clears the way so she can easily and effortless go
down the path without risk. This forces her to commit more and you don't go
first.
The other reason I don't like this is that if you are wrong as to why she is
saying (calibrating this is hard) then this is the wrong path. Just keep going
and calibrate her response knowing that you may have 1 strike against this
pattern.
(
Commenting on: "STEPHANE - I don't worry about it, because my style of
using patterns is very blatant. There isn't a single doubt in her mind that
I'm really talking about US when I run a 'Discovery Channel'!"):
NightLight9 responds: When I run my version of the Discovery Channel pattern I
start it with "...most interesting show on the Discovery Channel. It was about
building the perfect attraction." Wait for response. The wheels almost always
turn as she tries to figure out what kind of attraction. This always gives me a
chuckle.
(
Commenting on: "STEPHANE - Now this is the part where I need to
apologize to anyone on this list that is religious. I'm sorry."):
NightLight9 responds: Talk about an ambiguity or what? :-)
(
Commenting on: "MARKB - Rent the movie (Tao of Steve) and let me know
what you think."):
NightLight9 responds: My favorite PU movie and one that really captures a big
part of my skill set. This is an incredibly powerful mechanism for PU in non-
bar scenarios.
On another note, I too have been very sick in the last two weeks and I just
can't PU in that mode, but my mind has remained quite active. Last night I felt
better and I was on fire for about an hour, then I got sick again :-(
Regardless, I discovered what my attitude for being the alphamale is.
I actually say and believe "I own the place." Meaning I can do what ever I
want here and everyone will like me because this is my place. Don't know why it
works, just that it does.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Justin:
I've got a question on a special situation; what extra measures do guys on
this list take when the girl you're working on (church pussy again, in this
case) has only had sex with one man, particularly if it's her last BF. For
me it's a cold shutdown: I assume she's probably still in love with
him. How do you guys (especially your friend, Stephane) handle this?
